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	<title>Comments on: Begging for Dollars</title>
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	<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/</link>
	<description>Copyright Information</description>
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		<title>By: Cato</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-38573</link>
		<dc:creator>Cato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 04:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-38573</guid>
		<description>...well said John Shipp...

I believe that asking for donations is, indeed, &quot;begging&quot; for money in order to help continue one&#039;s pursuit of making music as a primary activity in life.  Since when is being an artist not a profession, one that results in works of art that should be sold, rented and/or licensed for use and not just given away with a meek thought like &quot;oh please, if you like what I have created please consider donating some money to me so I can pay my bills (add appropriate tone of thought)&quot;?

Of course, if your music and/or your ability to get it heard is not quite up to snuff, for whatever reason, then your income from it might not be enough to make a living mainly from making music, even if you are trying to do so (as is the case, of course, with most musical and other types of artists).  That&#039;s the way it should be and if you don&#039;t like that you can move to a country where the government supports the arts and try to live off of grants instead.  Again, if you are not good enough, whether it is your music or your social/promotional skills, you will not make it there either.  OK then, get another job.  Maybe music is not for you. It&#039;s indeed a hard earned privilege to make a living as an artist, and so it should be.  Keep it as a hobby and enrich (or irritate ;-) your friends or family.  Just like in other areas of human life, like finding a partner, there are all kinds of skills that help you succeed.   It should take quite some effort to make it as any kind of artist, and if you are lucky enough that you feel it was not so hard for you, well that&#039;s great. But if it is not working out, don&#039;t resort to begging for money because all you are saying is that your music is not worth enough for people to buy it, fair and square, if they are enjoying listening to it, or that you are not able, again for whatever reason, to make a living at it.  And, by begging, you are hurting other musicians and composers by helping reduce the value of composing and performing music as a profession (something we really do not need right now).  If you are providing &#039;added value&#039; for the &#039;extra&#039; money you are asking for, then that&#039;s OK.  Then it is not begging.  Just simply asking someone for money to support your &quot;career&quot;, is.  There are many ways of increasing the income from your musical career beyond the income from the sale of a CD or an mp3 file, without having to resort to &#039;begging&#039;.  Today it is so incredibly simple, thanks to the internet, to get to know any artist&#039;s catalog before committing to buying any of it, which you can also mostly do track by track, that there is no reason to do anything but buy (or, for productions, license) music and related extras, and thereby supporting the artist, through legal and artist friendly channels (another discussion, to be sure).  In my opinion, that&#039;s how artists should be &#039;supported&#039;, period</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;well said John Shipp&#8230;</p>
<p>I believe that asking for donations is, indeed, &#8220;begging&#8221; for money in order to help continue one&#8217;s pursuit of making music as a primary activity in life.  Since when is being an artist not a profession, one that results in works of art that should be sold, rented and/or licensed for use and not just given away with a meek thought like &#8220;oh please, if you like what I have created please consider donating some money to me so I can pay my bills (add appropriate tone of thought)&#8221;?</p>
<p>Of course, if your music and/or your ability to get it heard is not quite up to snuff, for whatever reason, then your income from it might not be enough to make a living mainly from making music, even if you are trying to do so (as is the case, of course, with most musical and other types of artists).  That&#8217;s the way it should be and if you don&#8217;t like that you can move to a country where the government supports the arts and try to live off of grants instead.  Again, if you are not good enough, whether it is your music or your social/promotional skills, you will not make it there either.  OK then, get another job.  Maybe music is not for you. It&#8217;s indeed a hard earned privilege to make a living as an artist, and so it should be.  Keep it as a hobby and enrich (or irritate <img src='http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  your friends or family.  Just like in other areas of human life, like finding a partner, there are all kinds of skills that help you succeed.   It should take quite some effort to make it as any kind of artist, and if you are lucky enough that you feel it was not so hard for you, well that&#8217;s great. But if it is not working out, don&#8217;t resort to begging for money because all you are saying is that your music is not worth enough for people to buy it, fair and square, if they are enjoying listening to it, or that you are not able, again for whatever reason, to make a living at it.  And, by begging, you are hurting other musicians and composers by helping reduce the value of composing and performing music as a profession (something we really do not need right now).  If you are providing &#8216;added value&#8217; for the &#8216;extra&#8217; money you are asking for, then that&#8217;s OK.  Then it is not begging.  Just simply asking someone for money to support your &#8220;career&#8221;, is.  There are many ways of increasing the income from your musical career beyond the income from the sale of a CD or an mp3 file, without having to resort to &#8216;begging&#8217;.  Today it is so incredibly simple, thanks to the internet, to get to know any artist&#8217;s catalog before committing to buying any of it, which you can also mostly do track by track, that there is no reason to do anything but buy (or, for productions, license) music and related extras, and thereby supporting the artist, through legal and artist friendly channels (another discussion, to be sure).  In my opinion, that&#8217;s how artists should be &#8216;supported&#8217;, period</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Ross</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-38565</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-38565</guid>
		<description>Let me note again. This post is in no way telling artists what to do, and it certainly isn&#039;t discouraging fans from supporting artists. It is positing that it is unreasonable for fans to argue artists should only be permitted to offer their creativity under certain terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me note again. This post is in no way telling artists what to do, and it certainly isn&#8217;t discouraging fans from supporting artists. It is positing that it is unreasonable for fans to argue artists should only be permitted to offer their creativity under certain terms.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shipp</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-38557</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shipp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-38557</guid>
		<description>This has devolved into an untenable situation for all parties:
Protect creator&#039;s rights?  
Damned if you do.
Damned if you don&#039;t 
Damned if you donate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has devolved into an untenable situation for all parties:<br />
Protect creator&#8217;s rights?<br />
Damned if you do.<br />
Damned if you don&#8217;t<br />
Damned if you donate.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara Taylor</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-38547</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-38547</guid>
		<description>How bizarre this whole dialogue is!  If I go down to the corner supermarket, I do not by any means get to dictate to the grocer that I will take the toilet paper out the door, only leaving a donation if I feel like it.  There&#039;s no product on earth where that is the expectation. 
     How then has it come to this:  if you create an original product (ie., music, writing, visual arts, performance, dance choreography, photography, etc.), then you must not charge for it.  It is not yours to use for profit!  It belongs to the world.  
     Such a strange pseudophilosophy, this, which has evolved to benefit only the consumer, not the producer or creator.   That&#039;s bassackwards!  Just who is it that is supposed to absorb the cost of production, materials, presentation, and hard copies?  And how are those producers and creators supposed to buy the toilet paper for THEIR families, THEIR children?  It flies totally in the face of the ancient tradition of bartering, where one trades something of some acceptable value for another&#039;s product or service!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How bizarre this whole dialogue is!  If I go down to the corner supermarket, I do not by any means get to dictate to the grocer that I will take the toilet paper out the door, only leaving a donation if I feel like it.  There&#8217;s no product on earth where that is the expectation.<br />
     How then has it come to this:  if you create an original product (ie., music, writing, visual arts, performance, dance choreography, photography, etc.), then you must not charge for it.  It is not yours to use for profit!  It belongs to the world.<br />
     Such a strange pseudophilosophy, this, which has evolved to benefit only the consumer, not the producer or creator.   That&#8217;s bassackwards!  Just who is it that is supposed to absorb the cost of production, materials, presentation, and hard copies?  And how are those producers and creators supposed to buy the toilet paper for THEIR families, THEIR children?  It flies totally in the face of the ancient tradition of bartering, where one trades something of some acceptable value for another&#8217;s product or service!</p>
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		<title>By: SteveAK</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-38530</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveAK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-38530</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but that&#039;s a pretty disgusting thing to say.  I have gladly used donation buttons to give money to my favorite authors and musicians and will do so again.  I have trouble believing that you&#039;ve thought this out thoroughly - what about bands which play for tips?  Is that &quot;begging&quot; - if not, why is it so to do the same thing online?  Should I have to go out and waste money on a bunch of crap I don&#039;t want to reward a creator for a work I greatly enjoyed?

Frankly, I much prefer buying books/music used and supporting artists through donations.  I have utterly no interest in paying intermediaries, marketing, distribution, etc. etc. because I do not want or use their services.  What use would I possibly have for a CD?  I want 100% of my money to go to the guy/gal who made the work - not a few cents.  Good riddance if the publishers go out of business!   I prefer digital for both books *and* music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but that&#8217;s a pretty disgusting thing to say.  I have gladly used donation buttons to give money to my favorite authors and musicians and will do so again.  I have trouble believing that you&#8217;ve thought this out thoroughly &#8211; what about bands which play for tips?  Is that &#8220;begging&#8221; &#8211; if not, why is it so to do the same thing online?  Should I have to go out and waste money on a bunch of crap I don&#8217;t want to reward a creator for a work I greatly enjoyed?</p>
<p>Frankly, I much prefer buying books/music used and supporting artists through donations.  I have utterly no interest in paying intermediaries, marketing, distribution, etc. etc. because I do not want or use their services.  What use would I possibly have for a CD?  I want 100% of my money to go to the guy/gal who made the work &#8211; not a few cents.  Good riddance if the publishers go out of business!   I prefer digital for both books *and* music.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Ross</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-38529</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-38529</guid>
		<description>Dan,

I think it&#039;s great that you&#039;re having success, congrats! Of course, your model actually has the &quot;donors&quot; getting something specific in return for their &quot;donation.&quot; That&#039;s a long-standing approach with copyrighted works, it&#039;s basically a new form of licensing. I think that&#039;s a bit different from the charity the author is seeking in this post.

I&#039;m not looking to pass judgment here or tell people what is acceptable or unacceptable, quite the opposite. Artists should be free to choose whatever model works for them and adjust as the situation warrants.

My issue is with folks who feel the Internet&#039;s disruption is such that creators shouldn&#039;t be able to have all of the choices available to them, that consumers should be able to dictate terms of their payment (beyond the power we already have of not buying). One model bandied about frequently is that creators give away the actual &quot;content&quot; and monetize non-rivalrous goods such as T-shirts. The donation button is often cited as a way of partially replacing the income the creator is walking away from. Again, let the creator decide if they want to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s great that you&#8217;re having success, congrats! Of course, your model actually has the &#8220;donors&#8221; getting something specific in return for their &#8220;donation.&#8221; That&#8217;s a long-standing approach with copyrighted works, it&#8217;s basically a new form of licensing. I think that&#8217;s a bit different from the charity the author is seeking in this post.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not looking to pass judgment here or tell people what is acceptable or unacceptable, quite the opposite. Artists should be free to choose whatever model works for them and adjust as the situation warrants.</p>
<p>My issue is with folks who feel the Internet&#8217;s disruption is such that creators shouldn&#8217;t be able to have all of the choices available to them, that consumers should be able to dictate terms of their payment (beyond the power we already have of not buying). One model bandied about frequently is that creators give away the actual &#8220;content&#8221; and monetize non-rivalrous goods such as T-shirts. The donation button is often cited as a way of partially replacing the income the creator is walking away from. Again, let the creator decide if they want to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-38527</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-38527</guid>
		<description>Instead of asking for &quot;donations&quot; why not set it up as a &quot;pre-order&quot; for your next release? You get the book/album/whatever right when it comes out, along with some other stuff depending on how much you pay.

We&#039;ve been doing that exact thing for our upcoming album and have been pretty successful with it. Call it begging if you want, but we&#039;re in the studio now thanks to this whole thing. 

http://www.sinch.net/store/the-new-album</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of asking for &#8220;donations&#8221; why not set it up as a &#8220;pre-order&#8221; for your next release? You get the book/album/whatever right when it comes out, along with some other stuff depending on how much you pay.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve been doing that exact thing for our upcoming album and have been pretty successful with it. Call it begging if you want, but we&#8217;re in the studio now thanks to this whole thing. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.sinch.net/store/the-new-album" rel="nofollow">http://www.sinch.net/store/the-new-album</a></p>
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		<title>By: max davis</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-37392</link>
		<dc:creator>max davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-37392</guid>
		<description>Congress has NO obligation to legislate for the benefit of BIG BUSINESS.  However, Congress DOES have an obligation to legislate on behalf of CREATOR&#039;S RIGHTS.

DataRevenue.Org is quoted as saying the government is basically responsible for the undermining of its own copyright system.......

&quot;And so, it is the government that should help fix this mess on behalf of creators of copyrighted materials which is protected by the Constitution of the U.S. Although our government may have missed this opportunity via the “first edition” Internet they can get it right this time with the “second edition” Internet, Mobile Networks. After all, in time there will be many more Internet transactions done via mobile networks
and devices than tethered Internet transactions. Now’s the time to put these measures in place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congress has NO obligation to legislate for the benefit of BIG BUSINESS.  However, Congress DOES have an obligation to legislate on behalf of CREATOR&#8217;S RIGHTS.</p>
<p>DataRevenue.Org is quoted as saying the government is basically responsible for the undermining of its own copyright system&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8220;And so, it is the government that should help fix this mess on behalf of creators of copyrighted materials which is protected by the Constitution of the U.S. Although our government may have missed this opportunity via the “first edition” Internet they can get it right this time with the “second edition” Internet, Mobile Networks. After all, in time there will be many more Internet transactions done via mobile networks<br />
and devices than tethered Internet transactions. Now’s the time to put these measures in place.</p>
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		<title>By: meanlouise.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The new (ish) music (art) economy (updated)</title>
		<link>http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2009/10/begging-for-dollars/#comment-37371</link>
		<dc:creator>meanlouise.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The new (ish) music (art) economy (updated)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/?p=516#comment-37371</guid>
		<description>[...] (update)I notice that the Copyright Alliance has also noted the Miss Manners column. The wrote: The next time you tell a creator that you want their work without paying for it, but that they shoul... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (update)I notice that the Copyright Alliance has also noted the Miss Manners column. The wrote: The next time you tell a creator that you want their work without paying for it, but that they shoul&#8230; [...]</p>
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